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- does everyone use kaioken?
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| does everyone use kaioken? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 30 2013, 04:25 PM (2,285 Views) | |
| lunar2 | Jun 30 2013, 04:25 PM Post #1 |
 
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Kuririn: “Goku, how’d you do that? Was that something you were taught by Lord Kaio? Goku: “Yeah. It’s called Kaio-Ken! [ ] You control all the ki in your body…momentarily amplifying it. If you get it right, then your power, speed, destructive force, and defensive force all become many times greater…” Chapter: 346 (DBZ 152), P14.3 Piccolo: “Commit this to memory: when we fight, we amplify what you guys call ‘energy’, causing it to explode. That’s why the energy you stole from me earlier doesn't matter…” in the saiyan saga, goku used the kaioken, which was a big deal because it could amplify your power in short bursts. however, in the android saga, piccolo talks as if amplifying power isn't a big deal. it's just something they do. is it possible that, like the zanzoken, the kaioken was not abandoned, but it became so common and routine that it simply wasn't mentioned anymore because everyone could do it? it was just part of fighting, like punching or flying. of course, the advantage to this is that ssj only needs to be 5x vs. frieza, since goku had already demonstrated that he could use the kkx10 safely, without needing to call it out. so goku could have been using the kkx10 when he fought frieza as an ssj, meaning that a static ssj multiplier is actually possible. it solves other problems, as well, such as gotenks surpassing his ssj in base with just a week. if goten and trunks had not yet mastered amplification before they went into the rosat, then those rapid gains they made could be explained as them simply improving their ki control with more practice. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| + Clearin | Jun 30 2013, 04:28 PM Post #2 |
 
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What about the red aura that Kaioken users always have? I think Piccolo's comment was more about suppression. |
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Jun 30 2013, 04:29 PM Post #3 |
 
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Kaio ken is technique, and only Goku learned it. |
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| * Mitas | Jun 30 2013, 04:34 PM Post #4 |
It truly was a Shawshank redemption
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Yeah I would agree with Clearin. I think Piccolo was talking about suppressing their full energy, whereas Kaioken is increasing and going beyond your full power. I think in the end Kaioken was abandoned by Toriyama, which is why it's (I think) never used again, except in the filler Otherworld Tournament. |
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| lunar2 | Jun 30 2013, 04:42 PM Post #5 |
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what red aura? the manga was black and white originally. and no, "amplification" is not the same as "stopped suppressing". and besides, saying kaioken just became a routine thing solves nearly every power gain related problem out there, as well as allowing a static ssj mulitplier throughout the series, since 5x works everywhere. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| + Clearin | Jun 30 2013, 04:45 PM Post #6 |
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There's specifically a coloured chapter of Kaioken Goku vs Vegeta and Goku has a red aura. |
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Jun 30 2013, 05:17 PM Post #7 |
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Kaio Ken is a technique taught to Son GOKU only by Lord of Worlds. Goku never taught that technique to anyone else, unless during Freeza arc, Lord of Worlds also taught it to Piccolo, Yamcha, Tienshinhan, and Choutzu. But that is NEVER stated. |
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| lunar2 | Jun 30 2013, 06:06 PM Post #8 |
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it's also never stated that goku or king kai never taught it to anyone else. that's an assumption we know that ing kai at least told the others about the kaioken, because tien talks about it during goku's fight with frieza. not only that, but yamcha, tien, and krillin have all learned techniques simply by seeing them performed and then practicing on their own, and krillin has definitely seen the kaioken multiple times, as has piccolo. we don't know if king kai ever demonstrated the kaioken for the others, but again, it's not stated either way. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| Alex D. Boss | Jun 30 2013, 06:34 PM Post #9 |
 
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Goku only uses Kaioken Bruh , Piccolo talks about something else. Lets be more clear. |
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| + Emmeth | Jun 30 2013, 06:40 PM Post #10 |
I ♥ Yoeri
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Dr. Gero doesn't know about chi-control. That's what Piccolo is explaining. |
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| lunar2 | Jun 30 2013, 06:52 PM Post #11 |
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so dr. gero watched all the way up to the fight with vegeta, where even vegeta talks about ki control, and yet dr. gero doesn't know about ki control? c'mon. if piccolo is talking about something else, then what is it? it's not ki control, because dr. gero already knows about that, because that's been a thing since at least the 23rd budokai. it would have to be something that most of them didn't know about until after the saiyan saga. @goku's only one ever to use kaioken. wrong. king kai has used it too. he just never mastered it. he even said that goku took the kaioken further than he ever did, meaning that he had to have used it before for there to be a comparison. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| Alex D. Boss | Jun 30 2013, 07:04 PM Post #12 |
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Saying that Piccolo used Kaioken is like saying Yajirobe can use Ki control. |
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Jun 30 2013, 07:05 PM Post #13 |
"Corona veniat electis."
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Everyone has the inner strength to reveal their red chakra. |
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| SuperSaiyan1993 | Jun 30 2013, 07:10 PM Post #14 |
Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans
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Amping your strength for an attack is not the same as suddenly becoming 2x stronger [Kaio-ken]. Using good techinque, form and speed, any fighter in reality or DBZ can amp their fighting strength a little or considerably but not enough for it to be twice their absolute max. |
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Jun 30 2013, 07:13 PM Post #15 |
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"Corona veniat electis."
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Amping your strength for an attack is always at least 1.1x stronger. Amping it further makes it Kaio-Ken worthy thus the need of the red chakra to reveal. |
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